Conversations About Lost

An Inarticulate Argument Between Two Fans About The Lost Finale

Matthew: So are you still liking the finale less and less? 

Emilie: I’m still pissed about the ending, because I think it was easy.

Matthew:  Was it?  

Emilie: I think saying they were all just dead is the easy way out.  

Matthew: I don’t think it was the most satisfying mythological resolution, as it shunned a lot of interesting possibilities regarding parallel time and space, but I think it was an endlessly satisfying emotional resolution.

Emilie:  It’s like staying up all night writing a complicated term paper in college and then you realize you just have to get it done so you cut out some of the more complicated shit and hand it in. They were being paid a SHIT TON of money with presumably a big staff to come up with an interesting resolution regarding parallel time and space that would have been, sure, super complicated and weird but they were supposed to figure it out. I just wish they hadn’t felt the need to put a bow on things and that they had taken a more “Deal with it, Fuckers” approach. They were never afraid of going crazy before (killing main characters, flashing forward etc.) to go easy and safe at the end is disappointing. I still love the show. It gave me a lot of lolz and some truly epic moments, but I am disappointed.

Matthew:  That’s fair, but I don’t think it was a completely easy ending. If you boil it down to “they’re all dead,” that’s easy. But if you look at the manner by which they did it, it was thoughtfully constructed and paid homage to the connections between the characters which was the core of the show.  “Live together, die alone,” was the theme and they demonstrated that, by living together, they didn’t die alone.

Emilie:  But they could have accomplished the exact same thing by having it be a parallel universe.  

Matthew:  How so? 

Emilie:  The people in the parallel universe remember their other lives, remember each other and have to deal with the consequences in the world their living in because their bonds were so much they broke through.  

Matthew:  But how would that converge with the main time line in a manner that would have been an effective finale? What do you do with the people who are parallel-alive but real-world dead? What happens to the main time line when they converge?  

Emilie:  That’s exactly what Darlton and Cuse were paid millions of dollars to figure out and they should have found a way.  

Matthew:  I dunno. I think they could have done something there, but I think that it wouldn’t have worked within the mythology of the show as well. They always said that whatever happens, happens having the time lines converge would have changed that and the show completely functioned on that principle.

Emilie: But like okay, they sent them back to 2004 in the premiere, to be like “Just kidding it’s not an alternative time line, it’s a weird spiritual world,” is a complete bait and switch. If you are going to bill it as an alt time line and then can’t figure out how that jives with your mythology or how it would work scientifically, don’t just be like, “Just kidding we never meant for it be an alternative time line in the first place they’re actually dead.” Do something more interesting or nuts with it. Its their fucking finale and the end of the show forever. They aren’t beholden to anyone they could do ANYTHING, without pulling a “what you thought was happening totally wasn’t happening at all suckers.” I honestly think it would have been great if they were in the alt world and re-established their connections with each other under different circumstances (like they had been doing all season, like how Desmond and Penny got together - which I thought was magnificent.)  They could have ended it there with an alt world where all the couples and friendships are recreated as they were on the island, through different circumstances but still, what happened happened these people were meant to be together and influence each others lives.

Matthew:  But then what becomes of that alternate world? It’s just left to hang there, in perpetuity? 

Emilie: They could have left that opened ended, there are two different realities and time lines running concurrently with each other there are plenty of theories in the world that would support that. 

Matthew:  See, I would have found that obnoxious if they didn’t find a way to close the door on the alt time line. I think that it had to end in some manner, whether it faded away, or converged. 

Emilie:  I disagree I would have been fine with that. 

Matthew:  That’s because you’re the WORST. 

Emilie:  No because then at least what they are showing you to be true would be true.

Matthew:  It was true. It was just not the place we thought it was.

Emilie: Its not true its a weird made up after life world that their collective conscious created after a hydrogen bomb went off.

Matthew: What I appreciated about the ending, whether you like it or not, is that it didn’t leave any threads dangling.

Emilie:  This is what I’m saying though, I didn’t want a bow. I wanted shit to get weird. The show has always been super daring in how it handled things, why go out with a whimper, not a bang?

Matthew:  I don’t think it was a whimper, that’s where we differ. I think them ending up in a Unitarian church after living their respective lives is weird but satisfying and sweet. 

Emilie: I think it’s obvious and safe, a literal deus ex machina. 

Matthew:  I don’t think it’s any of those things, at all. I don’t think it’s obvious. I think that having the alt world as just a parallel universe where they recreate their bonds without the island is WAY more obvious, as evidenced by the fact that we ALL thought that’s what it would be. 

Emilie:  Yeah and it was super interesting and cool. Remember the premiere?  What happened in Jame’s life to make him a cop?? Why was Hurley lucky?? Jack has a son?? Those were all things that were really interesting and exciting to see given our knowledge of the characters and to have it just be a metaphysical construct so their souls could move on takes away the excitement and interest from those things, because it just seems that those choices were a bit of “Why not, it’s our purgatory we can do what we want?” No one actually changed.

Matthew:  The reason why all of those things happened is clear—-the island didn’t exist so their paths changed there was no island in the alt universe it’s not as though the differences in their lives were random they all stemmed from the fact that the island wasn’t there. 

Emilie:  Well fine - but the fact that that world was some weird post life realm takes away a lot of the impact of that alt world for me, like one commenter said “of all the questions I wanted Lost to answer, “What happens after we die?” wasn’t one of them.” 

Matthew:  It’s not “what happens after WE die” though, this was a specific limbo for THESE characters which they themselves constructed. It’s not a universal purgatory that all people go to to work out daddy issues (everyone on the show had daddy issues.)

Emilie:  It still doesn’t sit well with me, making it all be postmortem just seems like a get out of jail free card : “No one knows what happen after we die so this is all valid.”

Matthew:  I know you didn’t love it and that’s not going to change, but I don’t think that it wasn’t a thoughtfully-constructed finale and I still think it was surprising and not obvious, given all that we knew about the alt universe. 

Emilie:  I think they got a lot of very beautiful moments out of what I find to be a very frustrating concept. 

Matthew: That is a fair assessment, I think it was the last thing people expected. 

Emilie:  Because its a little dumb? 

Matthew:  I think it would have been dumb if it wasn’t handled so artfully.

Emilie: And they’ve been saying for 6 YEARS that its not purgatory.

Matthew:  But the island wasn’t purgatory! 

Emilie:  I know the ISLAND wasn’t purgatory but you still don’t get to use the purgatory concept to explain away what you are having trouble explaining after 6 years of telling everyone it wasn’t going to be purgatory. Like pick anything, literally anything else but the one thing you INSISTED it was never going to be. You have all of time and space and everything related to the human experience at your disposal, it is the end of the series, ANYTHING could happen and you went with purgatory? Really? Really?

Matthew:  I think that their adamant proclamations that the island isn’t purgatory completely held and I don’t think that statement should be held against the final resolution and I think that the ideas you’ve put forth about how it would have ended would have led to the same argument we’re having now except you would be satisfied and I would not be.

Emilie:  If they gave you the beautiful emotional moments of connection and reunion and showed you how peoples lives can travel on different paths I honestly don’t think you would be adamant that the alt world be closed or solved.

Matthew:  I wouldn’t have liked the fact that it lacked a sense of being finite.

Emilie:  But it would have wrapped up the island story the way it did and left the characters together in a happy ending that doesn’t involve them sitting in a fucking church waiting for a make believe after life. I don’t know I just liked it more when it was legit time travel, I thought that was really fun.

Matthew: Fair.

Emilie: See! You agree with me! You magnificent cunt.

Matthew:  My cunt is nothing if not magnificent so I will take that as compliment. The Lost Finale is DESTROYING OUR FRIENDSHIP. Does this mean that the smoke monster actually survived and got off the island? And everything we know and love is on the verge of ceasing to exist!

Emilie: hahahahah Probably! Ele just reminded me of the “DAMMIT KATE! RUN!” scene. Oh Lost, I can’t stay mad at you. Ugh now I’m thinking about their epic kiss on the cliff. Brb. Crying forever.

Matthew: See you loved it.

Emilie: I did.

On Why Jack Shepard Might Not Be The Best Lover

Kate:  Also!! The “flashes” that they had to their life back on the island? How did Jack and Juliet not have them when they fucked to produce David? Was the sex that lackluster? I don’t like what this implies about Jack’s sexual prowess.

Richard: I don’t like it either. I think they only had sex once, which was for the purpose of producing a son. And when the intent is procreation, the island has no claim to it. OR Or it was just that they weren’t meant to be together. Juliet and Sawyer were meant to be together. Which is why they were together. Also, though, why, if he were the protector of the island, would Hurley have been such a tough one to make remember? And if Desmond’s power was that he could inhabit two worlds at once, why would one of the worlds be Purgatory? Doesn’t that kind of take the wind out of those sails? Like, oh you can be both alive and dead at the same time.

Kate: Yeah. I agree. That’s weird. We learned in the constant that he was special for his TIME TRAVELING abilities. Not his weird pseudo-religious world inhabiting abilities. Also Jack was the hardest one to make remember and he was protector too.

Richard:  Oh yeah. I forgot. That makes the sense I think we should write a buddy comedy spin-off starring Hurley and Ben as co-protectors. Lost: The Golden Years. And basically, they sort of flounce around the island getting into self-created shenanigans. 

Kate: There could have at least been a montage. 

Richard: I know. I feel like very little happened during those years. I mean, with Richard and the Smoke Monster gone, no Dharma, no Others, etc. Like what’d they have to work with. Also, Jacob brought them there to be protectors of the island, but like, why? Why protect the island? If the light only mattered to the island, then what was the whole big deal? I thought, Light Dying = Whole World Dead. But then it was like, Light Dying = Mild inconvenience to 8 people. It sort of lowered the stakes a little bit.

Kate: It did. It definitely did. But I don’t think the light went out? It just got fucked a bit when Desmond moved the rock thing? And then Jack put it back? So the light was okay? But he died? And yeah really what was Ben and Hurley’s To Do List? 1. Bury Jack. 2…………..

Richard:  hahha But did Desmond do what Locke/Smoke Monster wanted him to? Everyone was all, if he succeeds then the whole world will be destroyed. And so, like, he sort of succeeded no? What was he wrong about? Jack was like, I’m gonna kill you. And he was like, ner. And then Jack was all, rarrr. And then like the island was all, aaaah. But the whole thing was shockingly easy to fix. Even the cave of wonders still collapsed after Abu put the ruby back. You’d think the island’s plug would be a little more difficult to maneuver. Not just a simple: when you take this rock off, the island sinks. When you put it back, the island doesn’t sink. For an ancient island with a crazy history, that just seems overly simplistic.  There’s not a third state of being for the island?

Kate:  I agree. Its your season finale Lost. Go nuts. Burn that fucker to the ground. Have the cave of light collapse on itself. Have the smoke monster get off the island and kill everyone in the world armageddon style and then have the castaways have to go back in time and kill John Locke as a baby to fix things, have the castaways who got off the island in 2007 meet the castaways in 2004 and have things get weird (sexually.)

Richard:  At least have the smoke monster turn into someone more attractive than Locke. 

Kate:  hhahhahahahahaah  

Richard: Have the rock you put into the cave of light look MORE like a penis.  

Kate: Have your metaphorical vagina filled by a metaphorical penis. They could have at least shown Jack’s penis. Just once.

Richard:  hahaha I know. Or at least when he thought the rock plug wasn’t going to work, had him take it out and put it back in a few times. Just to see if the cave of light maybe just needed a little more to get going.  

Kate:  hahahahhahahaha  

Richard:  I think there are so many signs pointing to Jack being just a terrible lover.  

Kate:  Scene: Jack struggles with the rock, nothing seems to be working. He looks around and make sure no one is looking and slowly unzips his pants….  

Richard:  It’s like, he and his wife are about to make love and then he looks down at her vagina and then looks at the camera with a confused look on his face. LOST  

Kate:  hahahhahahahaha But like I like to imagine Jack is very virile because without that, what does he have really? Tears self esteem issues and some super hot tattoos.

Richard:  I think it’s a situation where Jack has all of those things, he can talk the talk, walk the walk, cry, operate on people, chop Boone’s leg off, perform a blood transfusion on an island with a bottle of vodka and a bamboo stick, but then once you get him in the sack he tucks his pp between his legs and asks you what you want to do. And then it’s like a struggle to get him off your back and he like blushes every time you say pussy so you just have to point at it. Off his back, to get him off his back.

Kate:  I liked the imagery of getting him off your back, it’s weird and confusing.

Richard: And like after several hours of concerted effort and crying and eventually you finishing yourself off, then he wants to talk about stuff. 

Kate:  He wants to talk about how that made you feel. 

Richard:  And how he can save you. And all you want to do is smoke a cigarette, but you know he’s a doctor so he’s gonna be all smoking kills.

Kate:  You’ll get a lecture. And possibly some more tears.

Richard: Exactly.

Boone Plays With Himself In Purgatory

Samuel: Okay so the sideways world was fucking Purgatory? 1. How did I not get that while watching. 2. Not sure how I feel about it. Did you get that? Am I an idiot? Answer the second question first.
 

Juliet: No. You aren’t an idiot. So, you’re saying they all died in the bomb blast. Or in various other ways. And the sideways world was purgatory. And they all had to remember how they died? Or that they were dead? Is this like, official? Did you read this? 

Samuel:  Yeah. I’ve read multiple things that says that’s it.

Juliet: So, everyone is dead? Is Hugo still the protector? Is there no body hair in the afterlife?

Samuel:  Ugh worst afterlife ever, if that’s the case. And yeah presumably the afterlife takes place after Hugo lived a long full life as protector of the island.

Juliet: Oooh. Yeah. I got it. Weird that Jack had a kid in purgatory, no? Like, I would think people are sterile in purgatory.

Samuel:  Why would you give birth to a kid just to raise it in purgatory?

Juliet: I know. That seems unfair to the child. Maybe Jack’s son is just his body hair in human form? And also, I feel like Sayid got a raw deal. It’s like, do you want the love of your life or some blond you banged when you thought you were gonna die?

Samuel:  hahahah Some hot but pretty dim blond chick you boned cause there was no one else around cause you were on an island? Also they never discussed why Boone’s hair was suddenly jet black and kinda fake looking, that’s a weird choice that purgatory made.

Juliet: I think that’s because they’re decent people and they didn’t want Ian Somerhalder to be more self conscious than he already is.

Samuel:  Yeah I guess if I was ever cast into a weird afterlife waiting room I would be okay with my hair being some sort of luxurious weave. Ugh. I liked it more when it was time travel and not weird religious shit but whatever, Lost! you showed me many fun things and taught me how to eat a cupcake like an Oreo.

Juliet: Those are all true things.

Samuel:  Also someone was talking about the ending scene in the church with everyone coupled up and was like “clearly Boone is his own soul mate.”

Juliet: haha I love it. Boone is auto-sexual. He’s attracted to himself. Which is really the only reason he was attracted to Shannon: he was attracted to the part of her that was him.
 
Samuel:  hahahahaha I wish in that final church scene he had like a hand held mirror that he was flirting with.

Juliet: It would have made the ending better.